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Help requested posted on 28th February 2017:

Safety camera partnerships in 20mph limits

As a parish councillor in Norfolk we are trying to establish if there are precedents for deploying safety camera in vicinity of schools within a 20 mph speed limit. We currently have high levels of non-compliance and neither Norfolk Constabulary Safety Camera Partnership or the council Highways dept are able to offer a solution. The parish council would be willing to part fund an installation which I understand has been trialled by other police forces? Guidance welcomed please.

Paul Grainger

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Response posted on 28th February 2017 by:
Pat Bates


Safety camera partnerships in 20mph limits

GoSafe, the name of the safety camera partnership in Wales, has run campaigns specifically targeting enforcing 20mph speed limits outside schools for the last 2 or 3 years.
These are mobile van based enforcement temporary initiatives rather than a fixed permanent camera.
Could be worth exploring and in any case perhaps the non-compliance you mention may not be sufficient to meet the criteria for a fixed camera.
All 20mph sites in Wales require a traffic regulation order to be in place as a prerequisite for enforcement.

Response posted on 1st March 2017 by:
Garrad Bailey


Safety camera partnerships in 20mph limits

Hi Paul

Here, Avon & Somerset Police enforce the 20 mph limits using mobile speed enforcement vans and motorbikes. Not just near schools, but in many residential areas of Bristol and Bath (and other areas). Drivers caught exceeding the limit may be offered a bespoke 20mph Speed Awareness Course (not the standard SAC) which is being piloted by half a dozen police forces across the country.

Response posted on 2nd March 2017 by:
Jackie Willis

T: 01603881557

Safety camera partnerships in 20mph limits

I am a driving instructor in Norwich, formerly a full time teacher, so I can look at this problem from the point of view of the school and drivers. I can say that speed cameras are an extremely emotive issue which cause a certain percentage of drivers, the very ones the speed cameras are aimed at, to drive dangerously once past the camera's range, because of the anger they feel at these 'money making machines'. These drivers fail to see the need for the speed limit. Outside schools, with a permanent 20 limit, perhaps we can see their point during school holidays and outside times of pupil movement, i.e. arrival & departure times. For this reason we are beginning to see more schools in our region with flashing 20mph signs where this limit is only applicable when the lights are flashing. This appears to be working as, from personal observations, compliance appears to be far higher at these locations. I would therefore suggest that the Parish Council requests this option first.

Response posted on 9th March 2017 by:
Rod King

T: +447973639781

Safety camera partnerships in 20mph limits

Note that contrary to a common view, "flashing 20mph signs" are only signs and do not actually change the limit from 30mph. They are advisory only. Any speed reduction is totally local and actually endorses a 30mph limit and 30mph driving beyond the sign.

In Birmingham, and Merseyside police are working with Fire Services to man enforcement outside a school and then offer any non-compliers with either FPN or sitting in a kid's court in the school. It works very effectively.

It also has the advantage of providing the opportunity to remind drivers that children need to walk throughout their community both travelling to/from school and at other times. Outside school is actually where most drivers do see the danger, where they do not is on the rest of the road network where children are just as present and at risk but not so concentrated.

Response posted on 16th March 2017 by:
Andrew Fraser


Camera enforcement partnerships in 20mph limits

Is it not about time that we admitted that camera enforcement is just about the worst way of achieving the objective that we could choose?
Jackie Willis is right - speed cameras are emotive. I'd say they have no place in a civilised society, especially when the technology is available to control top speeds, mandatorily, if necessary.
Paul Grainger's Council would be doing us all a favour if it sparked off a demand for the implementation of Intelligent Speed Assistance. It has to come from the ground up, because central government seems afraid of it - and other proven approaches to road safety.

Response posted on 16th March 2017 by:
David Sharp


Part-time 20mph limits

Rod - part-time 20mph limits can be shown by flashing signs and these are enforceable. The limit does change when these signs show - they are not simply advisory.
There are also flashing advisory signs which can be used where the limit doesn't change but those are different.

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